Tuesday, 25 February 2014

A few plot holes in the Horus Heresy, conversation with a friend

[9:22:21 PM] Serban: been reading a little about the emperor on WH40k wiki

[9:22:22 PM] Serban: it's nice to see logical inconsistencies happening at the big houses

[9:22:25 PM] Serban: with the story lines

[9:22:29 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: Yeah

[9:22:39 PM] Serban: ^^

[9:22:47 PM] Serban: that's why there's no substitute for actual human history

[9:23:06 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: It is not clear whatever he is a savior or a tyrant either by the time he ends up disabled

[9:23:35 PM] Serban: it's contradictory to me

[9:23:43 PM] Serban: because in False Gods

[9:24:10 PM] Serban: the idea that Horus gets

[9:24:24 PM] Serban: is that the emperor wants to ascend to godhood

[9:24:30 PM] Serban: and become a tyrant

[9:24:43 PM] Serban: and it's mentioned that the emperor

[9:24:48 PM] Serban: struck a bargain with the chaos

[9:24:50 PM] Serban: gods

[9:24:57 PM] Serban: in order to bring about his ambitition

[9:25:05 PM] Serban: to rule Terra

[9:25:07 PM] Serban: et all

[9:25:10 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: Yet Horus himself submits to Chaos

[9:25:15 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: To defeat the Emperor

[9:25:31 PM] Serban: so many questions are left unsatisfied with a proper answer

[9:25:36 PM] Serban: in Thousand Sons

[9:25:40 PM] Serban: Magnus tells the emperor

[9:25:45 PM] Serban: about Horus' betrayal

[9:25:53 PM] Serban: the emperor doesn't believe him

[9:25:56 PM] Serban: he sends Russ

[9:26:05 PM] Serban: to bring Magnus in to answer before the throne

[9:26:10 PM] Serban: but Horus

[9:26:16 PM] Serban: sanctions Russ

[9:26:26 PM] Serban: to destroy the thousand sons

[9:26:40 PM] Serban: which is quite idiotic

[9:26:43 PM] Serban: and implausible

[9:26:46 PM] Serban: since Magnus

[9:26:49 PM] Serban: visits Horus

[9:26:52 PM] Serban: during his dream

[9:26:57 PM] Serban: and demasks Erebus

[9:27:04 PM] Serban: exposing him to Horus

[9:27:10 PM] Serban: revealing to him that it's all a treachery

[9:27:21 PM] Serban: Horus lashes out at both of them

[9:27:32 PM] Serban: but chooses to side with Erebus against the emperor

[9:27:40 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: Why?

[9:27:45 PM] Serban: exactly why?

[9:27:52 PM] Serban: there's no good reason to do so

[9:27:57 PM] Serban: Magnus tells him that

[9:27:59 PM] Serban: all he has seen

[9:28:01 PM] Serban: was a lie

[9:28:09 PM] Serban: a vision of a possible future

[9:28:15 PM] Serban: from a myriad of different futures

[9:28:19 PM] Serban: ironically

[9:28:27 PM] Serban: the future Horus saw as revealed by the chaos gods

[9:28:31 PM] Serban: was the future which came to pass

[9:28:36 PM] Serban: but it makes no sense

[9:28:38 PM] Serban: why Horus

[9:28:50 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: Would convert to Chaos with the farse revealed before him?

[9:28:52 PM] Serban: would brutally screw over his brother Magnus in the process

[9:29:19 PM] Serban: Magnus, of course

[9:29:26 PM] Serban: refuses to let his legion battle the wolves

[9:29:34 PM] Serban: because he knows that the emperor will have need of them

[9:29:39 PM] Serban: in the future against the heresy

[9:29:53 PM] Serban: and he is forced to sacrifice his physical form

[9:29:56 PM] Serban: and pledge himself

[9:29:59 PM] Serban: in service to the lord of change

[9:30:08 PM] Serban: in order to save the remainder of his legion

[9:30:18 PM] Serban: 1000 astartes left

[9:30:41 PM] Serban: "Welcome to the planet of sorcerers"

[9:31:16 PM] Serban: Magus damages the emperor's machines

[9:31:23 PM] Serban: while also destroying the wards

[9:31:29 PM] Serban: setup against the warp fiends

[9:31:45 PM] Serban: but he does this without knowledge

[9:31:48 PM] Serban: so...

[9:31:51 PM] Serban: how should I put it

[9:31:57 PM] Serban: it's stretched too far

[9:32:02 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: He is not evil.

[9:32:09 PM] Serban: the motives, in my opinion, are not strong enough

[9:32:17 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: Why should the Emperor, arguably the "most powerful psychic", hold it against him?

[9:32:18 PM] Serban: to justify Horus' obscene stance

[9:32:21 PM] Serban: against Magnus

[9:32:23 PM] Serban: or the emperor

[9:32:25 PM] Serban: for fuck's sake

[9:32:30 PM] Serban: the emperor chose him

[9:32:31 PM] Serban: and no other

[9:32:35 PM] Serban: as warmaster

[9:32:43 PM] Serban: yeah

[9:32:46 PM] Serban: I mean, come on

[9:32:53 PM] Serban: if Magnus can fucking see the future

[9:32:58 PM] Serban: why can't the Emperor?

[9:33:04 PM] Serban: why can't the emperor read Magnus' thoughts

[9:33:11 PM] Serban: to understand that he's telling the truth

[9:33:17 PM] Serban: that he is acting with good intentions

[9:33:39 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: Also Mangus was made out of the Emperor's DNA, almost literally. So he should be all the more capable of proving his mind.

[9:33:59 PM] Serban: yes...

[9:34:01 PM] Serban: it's idiotic

[9:34:11 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: probing*

[9:34:23 PM] Serban: why send Russ to aprehend him

[9:34:33 PM] Serban: because he broke the decree of Nikaea

[9:34:34 PM] Serban: ?

[9:34:47 PM] Serban: and when all of them knew

[9:34:50 PM] Serban: this

[9:34:54 PM] Serban: how the hell did they allow

[9:35:05 PM] Serban: the other legions to remain oblivious to horus' treachery

[9:35:11 PM] Serban: ?

[9:35:29 PM] Serban: in the books

[9:35:33 PM] Serban: the reason they give

[9:35:37 PM] Serban: is that the warp

[9:35:42 PM] Serban: overshadows communication

[9:35:44 PM] Serban: et all

[9:36:01 PM] Serban: but that stil isn't a good reason

[9:36:21 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: They could have used psychic powers or astropathy or somethin

[9:36:24 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: something*

[9:36:33 PM] Serban: that's just (you can only destroy the ring in the fires of mount' doom), but you have to walk all the way there

[9:36:44 PM] Serban: you should use Gandalf's rocs (giant birds)

[9:36:49 PM] Serban: only when the orcs attack

[9:36:53 PM] Serban: whuuuuut!?

[9:37:09 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: lmao

[9:37:13 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: Yeah, exactly

[9:37:43 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: Why not just transport Frodo to Mount Doom in a surprise aerial attack

[9:37:55 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: Drop him in, make him drop the ring long before it can influence him

[9:38:00 PM] Diego Ramiro Lattes: And job done.

[9:38:14 PM] Serban: exactly

[9:39:42 PM] Serban: when building such multi-thread stories

[9:39:46 PM] Serban: it's really difficult

[9:39:53 PM] Serban: to bring all the different branches of possibilities

[9:39:55 PM] Serban: to fit together

[9:40:02 PM] Serban: and still retain no internal conflict

[9:40:16 PM] Serban: but some of those problems in the horus heresy

[9:40:20 PM] Serban: could have been easily solved

[9:40:22 PM] Serban: for instance

[9:40:24 PM] Serban: Leman Russ

[9:40:29 PM] Serban: could have simply attacked Magnus

[9:40:35 PM] Serban: without anyone's order

[9:40:48 PM] Serban: he could have simply found out via a spy

[9:40:51 PM] Serban: that the thousand sons

[9:40:55 PM] Serban: were still practicing magic

[9:41:16 PM] Serban: when Magnus reaches the emperor

[9:41:21 PM] Serban: via his warp soul travel

[9:41:26 PM] Serban: the powers of chaos

[9:41:32 PM] Serban: could have simply masked him

[9:41:36 PM] Serban: as a warp demon

[9:41:42 PM] Serban: thus

[9:41:59 PM] Serban: the emperor would have not recognized him

[9:42:00 PM] Serban: and magnus

[9:42:03 PM] Serban: couldn't have told

[9:42:05 PM] Serban: the emperor

[9:42:09 PM] Serban: about horus' treachery

[9:42:13 PM] Serban: this would have worked

[9:42:22 PM] Serban: without creating logical inconsistencies

[9:42:30 PM] Serban: and exaggerated motives

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